Woo more stamina for us!

  • Frost Presence now provides 8% Stamina, up from 6% Stamina.
  • Icebound Fortitude now provides 30% base damage reduction, up from 20% damage reduction. For a geared tank with high defense, this translates to 50% damage reduction, up from 40%.

It’s important to note that we aren’t trying to single out paladins here. We like the tank balance of warriors and druids at the moment, and we have a larger sample size of warrior tanks that we can compare. Another solution would have been to buff warriors, death knights and druids and then increase boss damage accordingly. Obviously, that would have been a much larger change with greater risks and a longer delay.

Though Ardent Defender is always a possible target for changes, we like that this talent provides such a distinction between warriors and paladins. Rather than have all the tanks have the same health, armor, avoidance and cooldowns, we’d rather have four unique tanking classes rather than just superficial or artistic differences. Yes, that design is harder to balance, but we think class distinction is ultimately more interesting, which is better for the long term health of the game. The goal remains to have all four tanks be viable for any encounter, assuming sufficient gear and skill, and any differences in performance on individual encounters to be minor. “Minor” is obviously a subjective term.

Please note that the death knight change will result in a small survivability increase in PvP, which we think is appropriate. We chose it partially with that in mind.

Source.

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12 comments to Woo more stamina for us!

  • Xaris

    We stole stamina from Paladins.  Hmmmm  Dual Wield, stealing stamina from someone else… we must really be the rogues of tanks.

  • I don’t understand GC’s comments about having to buff Feral Druids. They were already the best effective health tank, and have the most uptime on their cooldowns. They were the best tank before, and they’re still the best tank now, but somehow, they might need buffs?

    • Leucyte

      @TRM, didn’t he just say warriors and druids are fine, and the alternative to this would’ve been to raise all classes to the level of the paladin? Or has was this said some other time?

      @Gravity, is something up with replying to comments, or is it just me?

      Edit: Err, now I didn’t even try to reply. :P

      • The thing was, Druids were already better than Paladins. With the exception of patch 3.1, Feral druids have been the best tanks for all but a few gimmick fights the entire expansion. They have the most health, the most armor, and the most uptime on their cooldowns. The idea that they would need to be brought up to the level of another tank is quite confusing.

        On the Lich King encounter, where the tank is going to get trucked by 60k unresistable hits every 30 seconds, a feral druid will not only have the health to eat the hit without a cooldown, they’ll have a meaningful cooldown available for 75% of those hits, as opposed to a paladin’s 50% while still needing a cooldown for every one.

        The IBF change should be capped at 50%. One prominent DK tank on the tanking forums has already put together a 700 defense skill gear set, and tested it, and it provides an IBF that mitigates over 70% of the incoming damage.

        Gravity, why does your comment system hate paragraphs? Every comment I have to edit the line breaks in after it converts it to a wall of text.

      • Gravity
        Twitter: gravitydk

        I think I’ve fixed the stupid reply-to and line-break problem. It was caused by the nice wysiwyg formatting bar, I think.

  • Bingus

    I’ll gladly accept this buff the to class. As I also have a tanking paladin alt (not as geared as my dk), I don’t have any problem with the ‘nerf’. Paladins make great tanks (ease of play, snap aggro, etc) but I do find my DK ‘fun-er’

  • Rhidach
    Twitter: Rhidach

    Grats on the buff DKs, you guys needed and deserved it.

  • Tusam
    Twitter: tusamdk

    Just wanted to said, about time. I think quite a few of our healers will by happy with this change. I wonder if blizzard is going to keep dishing out buff and nerfs for every new raid. Sort of a strange approach, no? For example: they nerfed us in Ulduar cause we were too OP. Don’t remember if they did anything in ToC. And now they buff us in ICC.Hope this nerf-buff spike doesn’t become a pattern, it could get quite annoying.

    • Xabbu

      As annoying as the entire “nerf-buff spike” mentality may be at times (particularly when it affect spec or gear choice, or which players get taken to an instance), I still feel that it’s a better method of addressing a problem than not doing anything at all.Let’s take these cases quick; in Ulduar DK’s were still new and constantly under revision.  Let’s not kid ourselves, we were pretty over-powered as tanks went for quite a while; being able to chain cool-downs to an extent that no other tank could hope to match.  We’ve lost a bit of that, sure, but we’re still some of the best at damage reduction and mitigation (as long as we time those abilities right!).  Now along comes ICC; what’s changed?  In Ulduar we had more fights with predictable abilities that hit hard, and were on predictable timers.  In ICC we have bosses that hit faster, for lower damage, and fewer of the “flame-breath” style attacks that will completely demolish a tank in a single hit.  For DK’s our strength is those cool-downs, but when boss hits come fast enough we can’t time them as well as we could to a single, known large hit.  Hence, the passive health and mitigation of other classes is slightly better than our own, leading to our (very nice, thank you Blizz!) minor stamina boost.*shrug* In the end I guess I’m a fan of a lot of what Blizzard does.  I trust that they’ve got the people they do for a reason and they’re not making changes on a whim.

  • Evilcabell

    Is the hp buff that big of a deal? I noticed an extra 600hp a few days ago (I assume that this is from the mini-patch; they have implemented it, right?) but it seems to me that if I am ever in a win-wipe situation where that 600hp will make a difference then I will probably have bigger problems (such as dead healer syndrome). I would have thought that an armor value modification would be a lot more appropriate. Oh well. As long as they are still thinking of us dk tanks : )The IBF boost is pretty awesome though.

  • Gravity
    Twitter: gravitydk

    Evilcabell, it’s great! It’s not “just” 600 HP when you look at the effective health (ie. include armour and damage reducing effects). On hard-modes fights (note Blizzard mentioned this was in anticipation of hard-modes), 2% stamina can literally make or break the raid; they’re tuned that finely.
    Also, there was a very common perception that DK tanks (Frost, particularly) simply didn’t have enough HP, however immature or invalid that was; and perception itself causes problems.

  • Kenshi

    and now we can tank festergut with 3 inhales without outside help. stoneblood + ua + IBF. time these right and you’ll sail though the encounter

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