Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

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Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Cryptwidget » 30 Sep 2010, 14:43

Quick and dirty, line-by-line and tank value overview of Cat glyphs as they are today on the PTR. Here we go!

PRIME
Death Coil - Increases your Death Coil's damage and healing factor by 15%. Hasn't changed from live, which means it's still blah for tanking, unless you swear by Death Coil for what damage it does. Pass

Death Strike - Increases Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 RP you currently have, up to a max of 40%. Revamped for Cata, with a full 100 RP bar, you get that whole 40% chunk. Obviously you're gonna be burning RP on Rune Strike and DRW, so you may never see that full 40, but it 'll still make DS a hard-hitting power.

Death and Decay - Increases the duration of D&D by 50%. Revamped for Cata, I'd say this is a must for AoE fights. Since you can no longer reduce the cooldown of D&D, making your D&D count helps tremendously. For non-AoE fights, it can still be somewhat useful for the DoT, but other glyphs have more value.

Frost Strike - Not an option. Pass

Heart Strike - Increases your Heart Strike damage by 30%. Revamped for Cata, it's now a legit option. Will turn your unique Blood-tanking skill into a hard-hitting powerhouse. I'd say slot it and don't look back, but your mileage may vary.

Howling Blast - Not an option. Pass

Icy Touch - Increases Frost Fever disease by 20%. It's an option because of the increased threat done from the extra damage, but that's it. Pass.

Obliterate - Increases Oblit damage by %. Tooltip is broken...I can only assume this will still do 25%, which isn't bad since your Death Rites will still benefit from this skill, turning your Oblit into a valid DPS option. Problem is, you're not doing DPS...you're a tank. So unless you hate your Mastery and would rather DPS, by all means take this, otherwise pass.

Raise Dead - Not an option. Pass

Rune Strike - Increases your Rune Strike crit by 10%. Hasn't changed from live. It makes your threat-maker crit more, which makes more threat. How is this not a win? :D Take it.

Scourge Strike - Not an option. Pass.

Review: So for Prime glyphs, here's the top ones:
1 - Rune Strike
2 - Heart Strike
3 - Death Strike
4 - D&D

Not a whole lot of options, but then that makes it easy for choices. Slot up RS, HS and DS. Swap one of those out for D&D when you need AoE, which will probably be RS.


MAJOR
Anti-Magic Shell - Increases AMS duration by 2 second. Those two seconds could be a big deal in fights where there's a lot of magic damage, or for PvP, but you do have better options.

Blood Boil - Increases the radius of BB by 50%. This is what the glyph of Blood Strike turned into. Seeing as how BB is more important in our rotation than it was before, esp for AoE threat, it's probably nice to make sure it reaches all of it's intended targets. Just keep in mind that CC is a bigger element in Cata, so if you get this, make sure your think about it before popping it with a sheep not too far away.

Bone Shield - Increases your running speed by 15% when Bone Shield is up. Does not stack with other speed effects. See...that's the thing, if it DID stack, it'd be a great glyph for quickly running into a mob of trash while still providing some mitigation from their alpha strike, but since it doesn't, I don't see the point. Everybody and their mother knows that Tuskar's Vitality provides a permanent and similar boost while increasing Stamina too. No doubt their will be a similar version of that enchant in Cata, just like there was in BC before. If there isn't, this might get slotted, but I still don't like it.

Chains of Ice - Causes your Chains of Ice to do damage in addition to it's snare. There is that whole 'damage does threat' thing to think about, and that's the only reason it's getting this sentence written. If you swear by it's usage, esp. for PvP, get it. Otherwise pass.

Dancing Rune Weapon - Increases your threat by 50% when DRW is up. Revamped for Cata, the 12 seconds that DRW is up will turn you into a threat-making machine. You can't deny that...grab it.

Death Grip - Increases Death Grip's range by 5 yards. It's a tanking ability, for sure, and being able to us it from farther away is nice...but mostly for PvP usage. I'd pass.

Hungering Cold - Not an option. Pass.

Pestilence - Increases your Pestilence range by 5 yards. A minor glyph on live, this glyph actually transforms from the Plague Strike glyph. Regardless, it's AoE power can't be denied, but like the new BB glyph, be careful of it's power before you break someone's CC.

Pillar of Frost - Not an option. Pass.

Rune Tap - Your Rune Tap also restores 10% health of your party. Used intelligently, this can save your healers precious mana in AoE damage fights. Like CC, since mana conservation is going to be a big thing in Cata, you might want this slotted.

Strangulate - Increases the Silence duration of Strang by 2 seconds when Strang interrupts a spell cast. PvP glyph, though it's PvE usage can be helpful too...just not as much as other glyphs.

Vampiric Blood - Increases the healing effect of VB by 15%, but you loose the 15% bonus health. This is a tricky one...on the plus side, your healers won't have to work as hard for 10 seconds when they're healing you for those crunch times, but then you don't get a huge increase to your health pool either. Your mileage is going to determine the value of this.

Review: So, for Major glyphs, we've got:
1. Dancing Rune Weapon
2. Rune Tap
3. Blood Boil
4. Pestilence
5. Vampiric Blood
6. Bone Shield
7. AMS
8. Death Grip
9. Strangulate

You've got a few more options on the table, with one definite choice (DRW). The other two slots are a toss up between bringing AoE utility (BB and Pest), party utility (Rune Tap) and solo/tank utility (VE, Bone Shield, AMS, Death Grip, Strang). Pick your poison that gets the job done.

MINOR
Blood Tap - Blood Tap no longer does damage to you. Pretty self explanatory. Take it.

Death's Embrace - Your Death Coil refunds 20 RP when used to heal. So, unless you're Lichborning yourself and self-healing, it's worthless. Moving on.

Horn of Winter - Increases Horn of Winter by 1 minute. Unless they took out the 10 RP you get for using HoW, you're going to be refreshing HoW on a regular basis anyways. Get this if you're lazy.

Path of Frost - With Path of Frost up, you can land further than normal when falling. So, it's safefall for DKs. Gotta love these Trinkety minor glyphs...it's not bad though.

Raise Ally - Increases your Raised Alley's health by 25% and run speed by 15%. I personally love Raise Alley...this will be helpful. :D

Resilient Grip - If your target is immune to DG, it's cooldown is refreshed. Can't complain here...Take it.

Review: For the minors, they all have their uses...your playstyle will determine what you take. For me, I'm grabbing:
1. Resilient Grip
2. Raise Ally
3. Blood Tap

======================
Thoughts?
Last edited by Cryptwidget on 30 Sep 2010, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby tsukiyuri » 30 Sep 2010, 15:25

Cryptwidget wrote:Death Strike - Increases Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 RP you currently have, up to a max of 40%. Revamped for Cata, with a full 100 RP bar, you're looking at a 16% boost to DS when used. Obviously you're gonna be burning RP on Rune Strike and DRW, so you may never see that full 16, but it 's certainly a better option than others.

Before I really go through it you made a mistake. The glyph boosts DS by 2% every 5 runic power up to a maximum of 40% NOT 40rp. This means thats a damage boost of 40% at 100 runic power. To give you an idea of how massive that is, you are hitting for 304% weapon damage after talents.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Cryptwidget » 30 Sep 2010, 15:34

tsukiyuri wrote:
Cryptwidget wrote:Death Strike - Increases Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 RP you currently have, up to a max of 40%. Revamped for Cata, with a full 100 RP bar, you're looking at a 16% boost to DS when used. Obviously you're gonna be burning RP on Rune Strike and DRW, so you may never see that full 16, but it 's certainly a better option than others.

Before I really go through it you made a mistake. The glyph boosts DS by 2% every 5 runic power up to a maximum of 40% NOT 40rp. This means thats a damage boost of 40% at 100 runic power. To give you an idea of how massive that is, you are hitting for 304% weapon damage after talents.

I stand corrected then..that does make more sense :)
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby koivu » 02 Oct 2010, 04:45

Bone Shield - Increases your running speed by 15% when Bone Shield is up. Does not stack with other speed effects. See...that's the thing, if it DID stack, it'd be a great glyph for quickly running into a mob of trash while still providing some mitigation from their alpha strike, but since it doesn't, I don't see the point. Everybody and their mother knows that Tuskar's Vitality provides a permanent and similar boost while increasing Stamina too. No doubt their will be a similar version of that enchant in Cata, just like there was in BC before. If there isn't, this might get slotted, but I still don't like it.


I made an account just to say that the boot enchant is not 15% movement speed - more like 7-8%. But ty for the list! :P
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Perditio » 02 Oct 2010, 04:58

I think what cryptwidget was trying to say was that as we would already have 8% from the boots enchant, an extra 7% wouldn't really be noticeable (especially due to the fact that Bone Shield's uptime is limited in combat - and the use for it out of combat seems to be purely time-saving (running back from a wipe for example). That being said it could provide a little utility if there was ever a fight with spread out adds that need to be picked up, or a Heigan-like mechanic or even something like the Thorim gauntlet.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Gloom » 02 Oct 2010, 07:51

tsukiyuri wrote:

Cryptwidget wrote:Death Strike - Increases Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 RP you currently have, up to a max of 40%. Revamped for Cata, with a full 100 RP bar, you're looking at a 16% boost to DS when used. Obviously you're gonna be burning RP on Rune Strike and DRW, so you may never see that full 16, but it 's certainly a better option than others.


Before I really go through it you made a mistake. The glyph boosts DS by 2% every 5 runic power up to a maximum of 40% NOT 40rp. This means thats a damage boost of 40% at 100 runic power. To give you an idea of how massive that is, you are hitting for 304% weapon damage after talents.


I stand corrected then..that does make more sense :)


That being said, with Runestrike being the definite filler move for Cata and Deathstrikes not being the easiest things to engineer - I'd mostly pass on this. The number of times in a fight I've got 100 RP in the tank and a Deathstrike available I could count on one hand, and it only hits 1 target. Useful if you're single targetting and your target is a caster (no/few Rune Strikes). I'd consider this the swap-in for GoRS for magic boss fights.
Last edited by Gloom on 02 Oct 2010, 07:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Skarrde » 02 Oct 2010, 15:35

Perditio wrote:I think what cryptwidget was trying to say was that as we would already have 8% from the boots enchant, an extra 7% wouldn't really be noticeable (especially due to the fact that Bone Shield's uptime is limited in combat - and the use for it out of combat seems to be purely time-saving (running back from a wipe for example). That being said it could provide a little utility if there was ever a fight with spread out adds that need to be picked up, or a Heigan-like mechanic or even something like the Thorim gauntlet.


Th one thing I have vnever really understood about the speed. I haven't run into a situation that I needed to be somewhere fast to justify sa ruficing other things for speed. Tanked with a paladin in BC though mostly just Kara and have been tanking with my DK for the past 6-8 mos in ICC and then the weeklies. Only time I have wanted the speed is after a wipe and now that they have these portals to move across the raid that isn't even as necessary. Might be different with 25 man I don't know.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Cryptwidget » 02 Oct 2010, 16:54

As discussed in other places, Bone Shield lasts about 6 seconds, long enough to mitigate the alpha strike of your opponents to get your healers in position and/or ramp up their healing. For the speed utility that the glyph does, it's not 'bad' as a ghetto Charge for us, or for running back from wipes as mentioned. But because it doesn't stack, and we have a confirmed boot enchant for Cata ( http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=74189 ), it's still a pass for me.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Keebz » 02 Oct 2010, 19:48

Insolence and I discussed the viability of the Bone Shield Major Glyph in another thread a few weeks ago. It's only a 7% speed boost, and that too, only for the duration. This is nice, but as a tank, you likely won't be using it when running away from adds or kiting bosses...and if you do plan on doing this, it may be one of those "situational" things where you can glyph for it (though even here I'd be wary). Also, the reason it stands out as a major glyph is because options for the 3rd slot aren't that great. Personally, I'll be going with either Pestilence or Rune Tap for my 3rd slot, likely Pestilence.

My intended active glyphs:

Prime: Death Strike, Heart Strike, and one of either Rune Strike or Death and Decay (depending on encounter)
Major: Dancing Rune Weapon, Blood Boil, Pestilence
Minor: Resilient Grip, Blood Tap, Raise Ally

Nice post and analysis Cryptwidget.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Zao » 03 Oct 2010, 18:07

Nice list. But I can't see why everybody "loves" the DG glyph.

Reason: The DG glyph does refresh it's cd on an immune message, that's nice enough. But ask yourself this: Will you ever use that? The only reason I could see for it would be a situation where a DPS pulls aggro and at the same time two more adds spawn. So you could DG the Boss, DG an add and taunt the other. But that's pretty unrealistic.
And even if the taunt effect can miss (still not sure if it can or not) you'd get the "missed" message and not the "immune" one. Not sure about this one though, haven't tested it yet.


I do like the GoPoF. it's nice for bosses that have a knockup.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Insolence » 03 Oct 2010, 18:18

Immune Message = Grip portion failed. (Immune can also happen if you try to Taunt a Player).
Missed Message = Taunt portion failed. (It can happen, but rare occasions, only time I've noticed this happen is when I grip a newly spawned Shambler on LK too fast).

DG's Death Grip can't miss and it counts as a full Taunt, its not a fixate. Common thing ^^
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Keebz » 03 Oct 2010, 20:01

The other thing to take into consideration is our other Minor Glyphs aren't really great. Blood Tap is arguably our best Minor Glyph, followed by Resilient Grip. The last one is a toss-up between Horn of Winter and Raise Ally. If you make it a point to use Raise Ally every time you can then that glyph would be put to good use. If you are in a situation where you don't have another source of +str/+agi, then it might be worthwhile to pick up the Horn of Winter glyph. You may or may not be using Horn of Winter during dead time, I can't say for sure, but it might not be a bad thing (just like now).

I also don't trust Glyph of Path of Frost. What actually is the new fall range with the glyph active?
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Cloud8690 » 05 Oct 2010, 03:38

I don't see the point in glyphing for Horn of Winter unless you're constantly RP capped, as you'll most likely be using it on CD for the extra Runic Power.
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Re: Cata Glyphs (as of 9/30/10 PTR)

Postby Wake » 05 Oct 2010, 04:25

You can't even cast un-glyphed Horn of Winter if you're already buffed with someone's glyphed Horn of Winter. I guess you could cancelaura though.
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