pwnwear's DK Tanking Overall Guide

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pwnwear's DK Tanking Overall Guide

Postby Insolence » 15 Mar 2010, 01:08

Death Knight Tanking, Overall Guide



4.0.1


An index to 4.0.1 is here, providing links out to the latest analysis. We have quite a lot of 4.x content ready to go!
If you want the updated overall guide, that's over here.

The below guide deals with 3.x

3.x


1. The Basics
2. Advanced Training

Purpose:
I will endeavour to keep this guide updated throughout the remainder of WotLK, but I cannot commit to answering all the questions people may have, that is what the community is for. The simple questions and answers thread is a good place to ask them for fast answers.
This guide is not intended to cover top-end theory crafting, it is solely for the purpose of giving people new to tanking on their DK a helping hand and a reference point for the info they will need in order to get started.

Abbreviations Used:
    Avoidance: Dodge\Parry\Miss
    DPS: Damage Per Second or Damage Dealing Class
    Mitigation: Damage reduction (i.e. spell damage reduction, armor and straight damage reduction %)
    GCD: Global Cooldown
    DoT: Damage Over Time
    AoE: Area of Effect
    HoT: Heal Over Time
    RP: Runic Power
    IT: Icy Touch
    PS: Plague Strike
    HS: Heart Strike
    SS: Scourge Strike
    BB: Blood Boil
    HB: Howling Blast
    HC: Hungering Cold
    Ob: Obliterate
    UB: Unholy Blight
    DnD: Death and Decay
    AotD: Army of the Dead
    EH: Effective Health
    2H: 2 Handed weapons
    DW: Dual Wielding

1.0 The Tanking Basics


It is not the intention of this guide to tell people how to play. This guide is meant to be a reference and give you a good foundation on the basics of DK tanking and provide a reference you can come back to as you learn. This guide is not intended to teach you how to play a DK, it is intended to give you the basics of tanking on a DK that you already know the basics of playing.

Gameplay


The crux of the Death Knight is the constant need to pay attention to all your spec's details in order to maximize your tanking ability. I won't lie - this can become overbearing at times for beginners, but with practice it is something you will begin to do without thinking.
The most important thing you need to watch while tanking is that you are keeping your Blade Barrier up while bosses are hitting you, which is done by keeping your blood runes on cooldown. The good news is that if you following your attack system properly and burning runes as soon as they come up this will take care of itself.
As a DK you will notice that your tanking abilities have fairly short cooldowns - this means that unless you are saving them for a specific point in an encounter you should be using them proactively.
You rely heavily on Parry and Dodge for staying alive, but you can't use them if mobs are behind you. If you have a few that manage to get behind you then move to get better position. Your dps will have to adjust with you, but your healer will thank you.
DKs tank in Frost Presence, always.

Runes and Runic Power


As with all aspects of the Death Knight class runes and runic power are key to tanking successfully. There are a few things to consider:
- You need to keep your blood runes on cooldown as much as possible in order to keep Blade Barrier up and running.
- Rune Strike is a primary source of threat, you will need to make sure you have enough runic power at any given time to use this ability when it comes up.
- Icebound Fortitude is your most powerful tanking cooldown in most situations and costs you 20 RP to use. Many tanks like to try and keep enough RP available to use this ability when needed.

Runeforging


As you already know Runeforging for a DK is basically a free weapon enchant. These enchants have so far always been preferable to those available from enchanters and given that this is a key class mechanic it is likely that Blizzard will continue to ensure this is true. As with normal enchants a Runeforge does work with temporary enchants such as oils and Windfury. There are really only 2 common choices of Runeforge when tanking, as of 3.3 both come in 2H and DW varieties

Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (2H)/ Rune of Nerubian Carapace (DW) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina. The point to note here is that the enchant provides 25 Defense not 25 Defence Rating, this will go a long way towards helping a new tank reach the Defense minimum of 540 (689 Rating) and also provide them with 3% avoidance via this Defense boost(1% dodge, 1% parry, 1% chance to be missed).

Swordshattering (2H) / Swordbreaking (DW): +4% Parry and reduces disarm affects by 50% on a 2h-weapon.

Personally I see no reason that any tank would not take the Stoneskin/Nerubian enchant as the bonus Stamina it provides you is just too good to pass up for the 1% loss in avoidance that comes from not picking the Parry enchant.

The other interesting thing about Runeforges is that they do not count towards the diminishing returns on a given stat, so taking the Parry Runeforge will not count towards the diminishing returns you experience on Parry Rating.

Note to editors: this thread is linked by the official class guides. Thus, don't delete it for Cataclysm! We'll edit in-place.
Thanks to Vexill for his work on this guide; good luck enjoying IRL.
Last edited by Insolence on 25 Apr 2010, 13:13, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: pwnwear's DK Tanking Overall Guide

Postby Insolence » 15 Mar 2010, 01:09

1.2 Spells and Abilities


Often the purpose of abilities change subtly when moving from DPS to tanking, so the aim of this section is to give a brief description of how and when to use your DK's abilities while tanking.

It's assumed you know the basics of what the abilities do. I will cover the basic spells like Dark Command, since, believe it or not, I did once talk to a DK that had forgotten the spell existed.

The below is much more than ability tooltips: it includes insight.


Blood


Blood Boil
1 Blood, Instant Cast
Used in AOE tanking scenarios. When AOE tanking you're going to want to be using your blood runes to either Blood Boil, Death and Decay, or Pestilence. Blood Boil should be used when either of the other two options are not available or not required.

Blood Tap
X% health, Instant Cast, 1 Minute Cooldown
Generally you want to use this ability to activate your tanking cooldowns. Example: if you're a Frost tank you're unlikely to ever have a Frost rune available to cast Unbreakable Armor, so what you do when wanting to case UA is Blood tap to get the death rune then use that death rune to activate UA.

Dark Command
30 yd, Instant Cast, 8 sec Cooldown
Your basic single-target taunt.

Death Pact
40 Runic Power, Instant Cast, 2 min cooldown
A good emergency health filler. Summon your ghoul, sac it straight away for a big heal. This does required 2 GCD's to get done so if I know I'm coming to a point where a boss will hit me hard I like to summon the ghoul in advance.

Pestilence
1 Blood, Instant Cast, Melee Range
While tanking this ability is primarily used to spread frost fever, along with the attack speed debuff, to all the mobs hitting you. DK's are the best of the 4 tanking classes at providing this debuff to mobs in an area.

Strangulate
1 Blood, 30 yd, Instant Cast, 2 min cooldown
A very useful ability that allows you to silence an enemy at range. This is great for getting casters to run into a death and decay or generally move closer to you when deathgrip either won't work or is on cooldown.

Frost


Empower Rune Weapon
Instant cast, 5 min Cooldown
Provides you with a nice RP boost, and bring all your runes off of CD, this is good in those emergency situations where you have to activate IBF but no RP is available to do so. Its also fantastic for allowing you to use DnD, BB, HB when that stupid hunter goes and pulls the next group while your runes are cooling down.

Horn of Winter
Instant Cast, 20 sec cooldown
As with DPS if this spell is off of CD and you have a free GCD you use it.

Icebound Fortitude
20 Runic Power, Instant Cast, 2 min cooldown
This ability scales with your defence skill, as a tank this is a very very powerful damage reduction and will keep you alive in situations where you really should be dead. In WotLK mobs and bosses are hitting incredibly hard, this means that often by the time you've realised your in trouble the killing blow may already be on the way, be proactive in the usage of this ability. By proactive I mean, if you see an extra pack running towards your raid, empower rune weapon, thrown down death and decay and activate this ability don't wait for them to start beating on you before you use it.

Obliterate
1 Unholy 1 Frost, Melee range, Instant Cast, Requires Melee Weapon
This is the primary strike for frost builds. You use this when ever you don't have a Killing Machine'd Howling blast ready to go.

Rune Strike
20 Runic Power, Next Melee, Requires Melee Weapon
This is going to be your primary threat generation ability in all single target scenarios. Making correct use of this ability is often the difference between producing good threat and being removed from groups. Many tanks macro this ability into all of their others to make sure its used every time its available. This macro is provided below.

Howling Blast
1 Unholy, 1 Frost, Instant cast.
The usage of this ability as a tank varies quite a bit depending on whether or not you have applied the glyph to it. If you have glyphed it then you want to use it as your opener, every time you have a Rime and KM combined proc and every time you need to reapply frost fever. If not glyphed then you only really want to use it for AOE threat, or when you have a Rime and KM proc. I find that using this ability is greatly simplified if you use something like powa auras to display when you have proc'd KM and Rime.

Unholy


Anti-Magic Shell
20 Runic Power, Instant Cast, 45 sec cooldown
The best bit about this as a tank is that it prevents application of harmful magical effects. What this means is that you can skip some of the more annoying mechanics in the game, like stacking auras by activating AMS and allowing the stacks to fall off of you. The RP that is generated from absorbing damage is also quite nice. All in all this is one of the most powerful and most underrated abilities that DK tanks have. It is useful in many situations and has saved me more time than I can count.

Death and Decay
1 Blood 1 Frost 1 Unholy, 30 yd Range, Instant Cast, 30 sec cooldown
An awesome AOE tanking ability, make sure you are prepared to reapply this mid-fight in long aoe encounters such as the trash in ICC. A good tip with death and decay is to position it under the majority of the melee in your pull, then use Death Grip to pull the casters into the DnD. This can all be done while still running into position.

Death Grip
30 yd range, Instant Cast, 35 sec cooldown
As you might suspect you use this spell to pull targets into your death and decay.

Death Strike
1 Unholy 1 Frost, Melee Range, Instant Cast, Requires Melee Weapon
This ability provides a respectable heal that can be timed to provide quite a nice boost just after a boss hits you. The self heal of this ability is often overlooked as a tanking mechanic for DK's of all trees, remember that the self heal no longer scales with the damage done so the amount you get is the same if you are in blood or frost spec's. DK tank's should be using this to help their healers out when necessary.

Army of the Dead
A very useful tanking cooldown in many situations, often forgotten by new tanks. Ensure that you do not use this while there are ads in the fight being controlled by other tanks as the ghouls will taunt them and make them uncontrollable.


1.3 Tanking Talents


This section covers the talents from each tree that you would generally select when tanking with that tree as your primary. It also covers some of the incorrect talents that I see beginner tanks taking a lot for one reason or another. Make sure you read the descriptions to see which ones you should be taking and which you shouldn't….and why.

Blood


Improved Rune Tap - A 20% self-heal is nothing to scoff at, it can be a lifesaver, if used at the right time. Requires good timing and good awareness of incoming heals to use correctly.

Spell Deflection - Talent will (post #1569) proc on Dots, direct spell damage and AoE's, pretty much the only thing it is not confirmed to proc on is auras. With a 20% parry chance this works out to about 3% spell damage reduction per point over a suitably long period of time. As its a proc it may not go off when you really need it. This will not proc from strikes with elemental damage (frost strike, frozen blows, fusion punch). If you are looking at this ability for a given fight it is generally a good idea to see if someone has tested it yet, as it does not work as you might expect it to.

Read more on spell deflection in our dedicated thread.

Veteran of the Third War - A simple, yet powerful, stat increase. Even after the nerfs there is no reason to not take this talent.

Mark of Blood - Generally however this is considered to be a PvP talent, looking at the trees there are generally better ways you can spend this point.

Read more on mark of blood in our dedicated thread.

Vampiric Blood - The clickie tanking ability. A very strong ability and one that every blood DK must take or be laughed at.

Will of the Necropolis - This has been changed to become a large damage reducer akin to but not quite as good as Ardent Defender talent for Prot Pallies, no raid tanking build should be without it. This talent is not required for 5-mans.

Heart Strike - Not necessarily a tanking talent, but mandatory for threat generation in a blood build. This will replace Blood Strike in your rotations. Does a crapload of damage and hits 2 targets which as a blood tank makes it a much need source of multi-target damage.

Bloodworms - I see a lot of beginner tanks take this talent. DON'T, it does not heal you for much, the worms don't do much damage and die instantly to AOE. There is also a lot of conjecture that they soak up aoe healing that would otherwise hit your raid.

Improved Blood Presence - Another talent I see a lot of beginner blood tanks take.... again don't!!!! It doesn't heal you for very much and the increased incoming healing only applies to when your in blood presence. This is at best a PVP talent.

Hysteria - A valid way to spend a point, can be a great buff during a burn phase on a boss for one of the dps in your raid, rogues love you for it and its a good way to give back to them for all the tricks of the trade they use on you. You'll want to macro it to cast on a raid member.

Scent of Blood - Generates a significant amount of Runic Power while tanking. Is currently not required in a blood build due to the tight rotations and already excessive RP being generated.


Unholy


Morbidity- Reduces the cooldown of DnD, well worth taking for aoe tanking, also buffs your deathcoil, so its a win win in my book. Commonly taken in blood builds as well to add some aoe flavour to them.

Epidemic-A great talent that allows you more time between reapplying diseases. Some frost builds don't need any points here but you want to take this as Blood or Unholy.

On a Pale Horse - Though not the best talent, the stun reduction is still useful, but generally better ways can be found to spend these points.

Magic Suppression - It will buff you to full magic immunity in your AMS and provides access to the anti-magic zone talent.

Anti-Magic Zone - A very situational spell, great if your tanking a magic heavy encounter, useless the rest of the time.

Bone Shield - Bone Shield protects against auras, dots, and bleeds without losing charges, and can be cast long before a pull so it can refresh mid-battle due to it's 5 minute duration. Always glyph this to get the extra charges.

Scourge Strike - A hard hitting single target strike, if you are this deep in unholy take this strike as it will make up the bulk of your threat single target. Has issues when tanking as it relies heavily on armour penetration in 3.3 which tanks just don't have.

Unholy Blight - Beefs up your Deathcoils to cause them to apply a 'bleed' like dot. Not nearly as good as the old version, but worth taking none the less.

Ghouls - As cool as a ghoul is, its not really a tanking thing. I've seen DK tanks who take it for the extra raid dps and the constant option to sac the ghoul, which is all well and good, but for a true tank there are better ways you can and should spend your points.

Frost


Improved Icy Touch - The only reason not to take 3 points in this is if you always always have someone else applying the talented version of it on bosses for you, which you almost never do…. so take the points. As a DK you are also by far the most equipped to spread this debuff to all mobs in an area.

Lichborne - This is a pvp talent, don't take it.

Annihilation - Any frost spec will use Obliterate at some point, so this is a must.

Killing Machine - A great threat talent, every frost build will take this.

Frigid Dreadplate - 3% chance to be missed, every tank should take it.

Rime - Your already going to be spamming OB on bosses to generate threat, why not proc a free HB while you do it...take this. The proc here is called 'freezing fog' if you want to use power auras.

Unbreakable Armor - A solid physical mitigation clickie, its biggest weakness is that it does nothing against casters. All frost tanks should be taking this.

Acclimation - Resistance is a nifty stat to have, as it effects dots, auras and AoE spells. However dots and auras don't apply stacks of this. Generally this considered a pvp talent, there are much better ways to spend your points, don't take this unless your very sure you know it works in the encounter your taking it for.

Read more about acclimation in our dedicated thread.

Frost Strike - This replaces Death Coil as your runic power dump in frost. Killing machine affects this spell however the procs are better off used on Howling Blast if possible.

Guile of Gorefiend - 6 seconds bonus duration on IBF and more threat, there is no reason not to spec into this.

Hungering Cold - Pure pvp talent, impractical to use properly while tanking as to be really useful you need to glyph it and frost is already hard pressed for glyph spaces. Some tanks take this talent for the ability to apply frost fever, personally I have only ever spec'd it for the faction champions fight in ToC.

Howling Blast - High damage AOE attack, if you glyph the spell it infects everyone with frost fever as well. This spell is 100% mandatory in any frost tanking build that you intend to show in public.

Improved Frost Presence - 2% less damage from all sources..... take this talent.

Icy Talons / Improved Icy Talons - Only worth taking if your raid has no shaman or frost dps dk. Does not provide a TPS boost that is as good as the talents you are giving up to take this so beware that you are gimping yourself a bit. Under no circumstances should you take icy talons without taking imp icy talons.

Threat of Thassarian and Nerves of Cold Steel - Mandatory talents if you intend to DW tank.

Chill of the Grave - Generates a significant amount of RP in a frost build, generally means that you can get away with only 1/3 Scent of Blood.
Last edited by Insolence on 25 Apr 2010, 13:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Insolence » 15 Mar 2010, 01:10

1.4 Spec Suggestions and Rotations


A few things about this section:
- These are suggested builds only
- These builds are suggestions, I will not be keeping them 100% up to date with the latest theory crafting; that'll be done in the Tank Talk forum.
- My comments here are my personal opinion only and do not necessarily represent the views of the community. I will attempt to refrain from framing my commentary in a manner to suggest that I speak for the community at large.
- Blizzard claims that DK's should be able to tank in all trees, at the moment this is only technically true as Unholy is significantly weaker than either of Blood or Frost. I am providing an Unholy build and rotation only for completeness, in no way should this build be taken as me encouraging you to tank as unholy.
- For any fight where you will be AOE tanking heavily, such as Valithria Dreamwalker or Thorim's arena, it is a viable option to swap a glyph out in favour of the glyph of Death and Decay.

Frost


For Frost I will be providing 2 builds, but for each build the Rotations are the same. In my experience with both the game and simulations DW will generate more threat than a 2H build, and No HB generates only slightly more threat than GoHB. GoHB leads to a more free wheeling priority based system while no HB glyph pushes you to a more rotation based system due to the requirement for IT - PS to keep diseases going.

The Frost Priority System:
Killing Machine Proc - Frost Strike
Rime Proc - Howling Blast (Both AoE and Single Target but not as much of a requirement).
Keep Diseases up - FS (and) PS.

A Killing Machine Frost Strike will grant you more or less the same Threat as using an Obliterate, so be sure to prioritize those. A Rime Proc will give you a free-of-cost Howling Blast which is really nice in AoE Situations so be sure to watch out for those too.

2H Frost
Spec:
Click me. - The spec here has HB Glyphed, if you want to not use that Glyph swap it for Frost Strike. If you want Epidemic: Remove the two points from Merciless Combat and apply one to Deathchill and the other to Epidemic.

Frost Single Target (No Epidemic): IT - PS - BS - BS - OB - OB - (FS) - IT - PS - OB - OB - (FS)
No different if you have HB glyph, given IT threat is important.

Frost Single Target (With Epidemic): IT - PS - OB - BS - BS - (FS) - OB - OB - OB - (FS)

AOE rotation - with GoHB:
DnD - HB - BB - OB - OB - BB - BB - (FS)

AoE (Without GoHB):
DnD - IT - PS - PT - (FS) - HB - BB - BB - (FS)

DW Frost
Spec:
Click me

Frost Single Target (No Epidemic): IT - PS - BS - BS - OB - OB - (FS) - IT - PS - OB - OB - (FS)
No different if you have HB glyph, given IT threat is important.

Frost Single Target (With Epidemic): IT - PS - OB - BS - BS - (FS) - OB - OB - OB - (FS)

AOE rotation - with GoHB:
DnD - HB - BB - OB - OB - BB - BB - (FS)

AoE (Without GoHB):
DnD - IT - PS - PT - (FS) - HB - BB - BB - (FS)

Blood


The blood tree provides very strong single target threat but far weaker aoe threat than frost or unholy. It uses a lot of self healing and a successful blood tank makes good use of death strike. There is an optional point in necrosis in the build provided, I take necrosis for the single target threat, but another option is to take runetap for the 10% self heal.

Spec:
Click me

Single Target: IT - PS - HS - HS - DS - (DC) - DS - HS - HS - HS - HS - (DC)

AoE: DnD - IT - PS - PT - DS - BB - BB - DS - (DC)

Unholy


Spec:
Click me Build without Reaping. Click me for a Build with Reaping.

Unholy Single Target

With Reaping:
IT - PS - BS - BS - SS - (DC) - SS - SS - SS - (DC)

Without Reaping:
IT – PS – SS – BS – BS – (DC) – (HoW) – (DC) - IT – PS – SS – BS – BS – (DC) – (DC)

AoE: DnD - IT - PS - PT - SS - BB* - BB - SS
(* 1 blood boil can be swapped for blood strike if you have 5% desolation)
Last edited by Insolence on 25 Apr 2010, 13:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: pwnwear's DK Tanking Overall Guide

Postby Insolence » 15 Mar 2010, 01:11

2. Setting Up Your Character


This section will cover more abstract concepts such as stat priorities,

2.1 Stat Priorities


The first and major priority for tanks is the defense cap. This should be your first and primary goal. For level 80 you need 540 defense (that's 688 defense rating) total at all times when tanking level 83/boss mobs. If you have anything less than this there is a good chance you will be crit by the boss's physical attacks. Also, it is noteworthy that when you do get 540 defense you effectively added another 10% avoidance to your sheet because the crit bosses have and the defense bonus itself are converted to a miss chance.

Stat priorities for defensive tanking can be summarised as Defense (until you hit 540) > stam/Armor > dodge > parry - Parry is a pretty poor stat for DK's as we hit the diminishing returns on it very fast due to forceful deflection.

Hit/Expertise are great tools to help you push out threat, but your main priority is tanking, and although being a threat rocket is great if you can't survive the fight and give healers something to work with the fight will not go well. Just make sure you have sufficient stats to survive the encounter before you start gearing entirely for threat. A note on expertise is that while all spec's should seek it for threat, being below the 26 expertise cap will have a greater impact on frost and blood than it will on unholy.

When looking at whether you need more threat or more avoidance gear there is a general rule that in tanking new encounters for you its generally more useful to have more defensive abilities than threat, as it allows for a few more mistakes from your healers and yourself without you dying. The way to get around the need for both threat and defensive power is to have a couple of gear configurations, one for high threat and one for high avoidance. eg: you might carry two neck pieces, one with +hit and + expertise and the other with +dodge and +parry. It does not generally require you to carry 2 full sets of tanking gear around, just enough to push your stats either way. Once content is on farm concentrate on picking up as much spare gear to play with as you can, it will only serve to help you in your next progression push.

We also have a comprehensive discussion on gemming strategy.

2.2 Enchants


Below are what I consider to be the better options for enchants in each slot.

Head: +37 Stam and +20 def rating
Shoulder: +20 dodge rating and +15 def rating or +30stam +15 resil
Cloak: +16 Def Rating or +225 Armor
Chest: +10 to all Stats or +22 defense rating or +275 hp
Bracers: +40 Stam
Gloves: +2% Threat and 10 Parry Rating is the best option. +20 hit rating or +15 expertise rating or +18 stamina are cheaper alternatives, the stamina being best alternative to 2% threat
Legs: +55 stam and +22 Agility
Feet: +22 stam or +15 Stam and +8% movement, generally the Tuskarr's is preferred
Rings: +24 stam
Weapon: Runeforge

The exact chant that is best for your toon is up to you where there is a choice listed. Using a program like RAWR is a good way to figure out which you really need.

2.3 Macros


We have a comprehensive list of macros here.
This one is quite important:
Runestrike:
Code: Select all
#showtooltip <ability name>
/cast !Rune Strike
/cast <ability name>


Acknowledgments
Suno, Vexill, The DKI community, Gravity, Neinordir
Last edited by Insolence on 25 Apr 2010, 13:14, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Insolence » 15 Mar 2010, 01:11

Reserved
A Wise Sage once said: GearScore has more to do with Skill than you think... The more you care about it, the less you have.

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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Caracarn » 15 Mar 2010, 02:07

Great to see this being Ported! Thanks Vexill! A wealth of information that's always nice to look through when thinking about changing things up.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby yamaraj » 15 Mar 2010, 16:56

Thank you for bringing this over Vex. Your info is so much easier to follow than wading through pages of EJ forums
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Gloom » 15 Mar 2010, 17:49

I'm confused with respect to the DW AE prority you use with HB Glyph.

I open with DnD,HB,BB then prioritisation and target switching: Obliterates, HB off Rime and Killing Machine, FS off Killing Machine and HB off Rime procs - (Usually I'll hold them til I need to refresh Frost Fever - gives more chance of getting a KM with it and it's free anyway) with Blood Strikes to convert runes or Boiling Blood as required.

Am I missing something with your use of Pestilence after you start target switching? As you've Glyphed HB you don't need Pestilence to AE disease and the DW spec doesn't include Glyph of disease to refresh the Blood Plague off Pestilence.

I'm not criticising, I just don't understand the mechanics behind it.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby yamaraj » 15 Mar 2010, 18:32

It is because he uses the same rotation for glyph and non-glyph specs. You notice that he uses PS for both versions so I assume that he wants to keep blood plague up. When I was using the glyphed spec I found that a blood boil and HB did more damage that a full run of blood plague so I ran AE as DnD-HB-BB-OB-OB-BB-BB gave me better results than what he posted there.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Kuren » 15 Mar 2010, 18:40

For heroics, I can't see using Pestilence with glyphed HB since nothing is going to live too long. I've found that DnD, HB, BB is fastest threat and works very well there. I just focus on HB and BB after the pull. I use OB when I have runes and HB is on cooldown still.

If you only use glyphed HB to get up diseases then you are only keeping one disease up on all the targets. For raid or elites that may be around longer, I haven't played around with it in a while but I would think you will get more AoE threat keeping up both diseases. You will give up an initial unholy rune. You will also use a blood rune every so often to keep the diseases spread. BB will hit harder though plus Blood Plague will be doing extra damage.

While the DW spec doesn't include Glyph of Disease, you can still use Pestilence to refresh the diseases on all the other targets. If you do it while switching targets as you mentioned, then it should keep up the diseases on all of them. Worst case would be that one of them is missing Blood Plague for a bit but the glyphed HB should keep up Frost Fever on all of them.

I may experiment with it again. All the other tanks in my guild are paladins so I don't get too worried about AoE threat on the trash. I tend to focus on the casters and such and help with positioning.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Insolence » 16 Mar 2010, 03:00

Could I suggest you add something about Consumables? Like about what Flask and Potions that should be used, when, what other Foods can be used. Also, Enchantment Names? Not everyone has memorized the names of each BiS Enchant for Tank Gear I think :P.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Gravity » 16 Mar 2010, 05:05

Consumables should have its own thread. Food already has thread. Enchants are in Gear, but maybe buried. Gem strategy is covered.

The idea behind site rules is to have specific posts where possible, so people do not have to read buried threads. Vex's guide is an exception, but we shouldnt extend too far. Vex can cross-link to other threads in the forums instead. Think like a wiki would be. So if you come with a question, you can find a thread that by its title alone you can tell will be likely relevant.

I really want to avoid the same questions being asked again, and again, (particularly if we've already answered them) and a good thread/forum structure will help with that.

Since this is a newly re-forming community, it might take a bit of steering.
None of us want this to devolve into forums full of trolls, unqualified posts and hard-to-find facts. Hope this helps.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Insolence » 16 Mar 2010, 09:20

Ooops... Forgot about those Threads. Sorry then :P
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby BigKoala » 20 Mar 2010, 19:08

I understand that Unholy is currently the weakest of the DK trees for tanking, but I would like to suggest, Vexill, that there is a small niche for Unholy tanks: tank newbs such as myself.

The vast majority of my DK time has been as Unholy DPS. When I decided to try tanking I first accumulated enough gear, while DPSing, to be massively over-equipped for heroics. Next I did my research and, mainly through EJ and pwnwear, made a Frost tank build and started running normal dungeons. The shift in abilities (both rotation and keybindings) meant that I was spending way too much time concentrating on the "Frost" aspects of tanking and far too little of my attention was available for learning the other aspects of tanking like developing tanking situational awareness and the nuances of pulls and pull timing.

So I used the Unholy information here and at EJ and worked up an Unholy tank, with rotations and keybindings that are second nature to a long-time Unholy DPS, and found that my threat and my ability to learn about tanking both went up.

I'm not saying that Unholy isn't at the bottom in potential, I'm just saying I'm thankful that Unholy still gets considered for completeness sake, for there are some of us find changing too many things at once daunting.
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Re: Vexill's DK tanking guide

Postby Gravity » 22 Mar 2010, 01:36

If anyone would like to help out, here's a job that's needed.
Cross-check Vex's guide here with my rotation post. Point out any inconsistencies (really, there should only be one 'right' way and then a set of exceptions listed). We can then work out which post to change.
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