The Death Knight Cataclysm Preview, analysis

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The Death Knight Cataclysm Preview, analysis

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 01:14

The DK class review is out!
Original post here.

Links to subsequent updates from Blizzard:

Zarhym wrote:World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will bring with it several changes to class talents and abilities. In this preview, you'll get a glimpse at some of the new abilities, spells, and talents in store for the death knight class, along with an early look at some improvements we plan to make to the rune resource system.

New Death Knight Abilities

Outbreak (level 81): One minute cooldown. Outbreak infects the target with both Frost Fever and Blood Plague at no rune cost. This ability allows death knights to apply diseases quickly when they are switching targets or when their diseases have been dispelled.

Necrotic Strike (level 83): Necrotic Strike is a new attack that deals weapon damage and applies a debuff that absorbs an amount of healing based on the damage done. For context, imagine that the death knight can choose between doing 8,000 damage outright with a certain ability, or dealing 6,000 damage and absorbing 4,000 points in incoming heals with Necrotic Strike -- the burst is smaller, but a larger overall amount of healing would be required to bring the target back to full health.

This ability is meant to bring back some of the old flavor from when death knights could dispel heal-over-time (HoT) effects. It also gives the class a bit more PvP utility without simply replicating a Mortal Strike-style effect.

Dark Simulacrum (level 85): The death knight strikes a target, applying a debuff that allows the death knight to copy the opponent's next spell cast and unleash it. Unlike Spell Reflection, Dark Simulacrum does not cancel the incoming spell. In general, if you can't reflect an ability, you won't be able to copy it either.

Rune System Changes

While we're satisfied with the way the rune system works overall, we're making a few major changes to the mechanics that will ultimately help death knight players feel less constrained. Here's the rationale behind the changes, followed by an explanation of how the new system will work.
  • In the current rune system, any time a rune is sitting idle, death knights are losing out on potential damage output. By comparison, rogues spend most of their time at low energy levels, and if they're unable to use their skills for a few seconds, that energy builds up and can be spent later, minimizing the net loss from the interruption.
  • A death knight's runes, on the other hand, cannot be used until they are fully active. If a death knight ever goes more than a few seconds without spending an available rune, that resource is essentially wasted. Because the death knight is pushing buttons constantly, it can be difficult to add new mechanics to the class because the player doesn't have any free global cooldowns to use them. We can't grant extra resources or reduced cost, because there is no time to spend them. Missing an attack is devastating, and it's impossible to save resources for when they're most useful.
  • Additionally, each individual death knight ability has a fairly low impact on its own, making it feel like most of the death knight's attacks are weak. The death knight's rotations are also more easily affected by latency or a player's timing being just a little off. At times, it feels like death knights aren't able to take advantage of their unique resource mechanic, which can diminish the fun.
  • The new rune system will change how runes regenerate, from filling simultaneously to filling sequentially. For example, if you use two Blood runes, then the first rune will fill up before the second one starts to fill up. Essentially, you have three sets of runes filling every 10 seconds instead of six individual runes filling every 10 seconds. (Haste will cause runes to fill faster.) Another way to think of this is having three runes that go up to 200% each (allowing extra "storage"), rather than six runes that go up to 100% each.
  • As this is a major change to the death knight's mechanics, it will of course require us to retune many of the class's current abilities. For example, each ability needs to hit harder or otherwise be more meaningful since the death knight is getting fewer resources per unit of time. Some abilities will need to have their costs reduced as a result.

Talent Changes

Next we'll outline some of the death knight talent-tree changes we're planning in Cataclysm. This list is by no means comprehensive, but it should give you a sense of how we're intending each death knight spec to perform.
  • One of the biggest changes we're making is converting Blood into a dedicated tanking tree. While we feel that having three tanking trees was successful overall, it's less necessary in a world with dual-specialization. In addition, the current breakdown isn't as compatible with the Mastery-based passive talent-tree bonuses we want to add (see below). We'd rather spend time tweaking and balancing one good tanking tree rather than having a tank always wondering if they picked the "correct" tree out of three possibilities.
  • Blood seemed like the best fit for tanking. Unholy has always had a strong niche with diseases, magic, and command over pets. Frost now feels like a solid dual-wield tree with Frost magic damage and decent crowd control. Blood's niche was self-healing -- fitting for a tank -- as well as strong weapon swings, which could easily be migrated to Frost and Unholy.
  • Our plan is to move the most interesting and fun tanking talents and abilities to Blood. For example, you will likely see Vampiric Blood and Will of the Necropolis remain, while Bone Shield will move over from Unholy.

Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Blood
Damage reduction
Vengeance
Healing Absorption

Frost
Melee damage
Melee Haste
Runic Power Generation

Unholy
Melee damage
Melee and spell critical damage
Disease Damage

Detail
Healing Absorption: When you heal yourself, you'll receive an additional effect that absorbs incoming damage.

Runic Power Generation: This will function as the name implies, and the new rune system will make generating Runic Power more appealing.

Disease Damage: Unholy death knights will be able to get more out of their diseases, which are integral to the tree's play style.

Vengeance: This new mechanic is designed to ensure that tank damage output (and therefore threat) doesn't fall behind as damage-dealing classes improve their gear during the course of the expansion. All tanking specs will have Vengeance as their second talent tree passive bonus. Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will grant a stacking Attack Power buff equal to 5% of the damage done, up to a maximum of 10% of the character's unbuffed health. For boss encounters, we expect that tanks will always have an Attack Power bonus equal to 10% of their health. The 5% and 10% bonuses assume 51 talent points have been put into the Blood tree; these values will be smaller at lower levels.

You only get the Vengeance bonus if you have spent the most talent points in the Blood tree, so you won't see Frost or Unholy death knights running around with it. Vengeance will let us continue to design tank gear more or less the way we do today; there will be some damage-dealing stats, but mostly survival-oriented stats. Druids typically have more damage-dealing stats even on their tanking gear, so their Vengeance benefit may be smaller, but the goal is that all four tanks will do about the same damage when tanking.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.


Links:
Source
Cataclysm Stat & System Changes
Mastery System Preview

First update from Blizzard

Zarhym wrote:Here are a few points of clarification:
We want to provide a 2-handed style for Frost since we recognize that pets are an acquired taste. We think we have the design space to do that now that we don't need to support Frost tanking. We're definitely committed to making Frost work as a dual-wield tree though -- that isn't going away.

Outbreak is free with a 1-minute cooldown. It's not supposed to completely replace Plague Strike and Icy Touch.

We're not sure how we're going to handle presences yet. We recognize the oddness of Blood death knights playing in Frost Presence and Frost death knights not playing in Frost Presences. We might rename the presences or take some other action.


Latest:
ghostcrawler wrote:
some noob wrote:GC, does this mean that important cooldowns won't require runes? Instead we'll see things like Strangulate, Bone Shield, Ghoul Frenzy, UA and stuff cost runic power or just be free? They would be incredibly frustrating to use with such long rune cooldowns.
I don't think we can make them all cost runes. That would be too hard to manage. If I had to guess, some will be runic power and some will just be free. If we did move Bone Shield to Blood, then that one might be okay as a rune since it's something you do pre-emptively, but we have some more talent tree work to do first before we can really answer that.
Last edited by Gravity on 21 Apr 2010, 10:36, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: updated link to AOE tanking GC post
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Kuren » 09 Apr 2010, 01:20

I just saw this too. I didn't see much about how Blood will change to handle tanking. We consider Blood the weakest AoE spec. Will they give us another tool for Cataclysm or will it remain how it is today?

The healing absorption is kind of interesting although I don't think that will be equal to block which so far DKs will not have (unless I missed something or they have different plans for us). I still believe block is going to be an incredible feature in Cataclysm since it will scale with incoming damage now. Perhaps we will just get more of the other avoidance stats to make up for it?
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 01:31

Also missing is how Rune Strike will change, whether Icy Slam will remain high-threat and I wonder whether Vampiric Blood's buff counts as "self-healing".

I like this point:
as above wrote:...while Bone Shield will move over from Unholy.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby DJTimeKiller » 09 Apr 2010, 01:56

Vampiric Blood is an increase to Health and increased healing % on effects received. It's not a self heal by mechanic. It just increases our own health pool and increases healing effects.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 01:57

Yeah I know that, but wondering if they'll give it an interraction anyhow.

The new spell Outbreak should make glyph of disease useless too, I wonder what it'll become if it's changed.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Shayzani » 09 Apr 2010, 02:36

The mastery bonuses for Frost and Unholy are pretty uninteresting. Fine enough I suppose but not anything that'll turn heads.

Bone Shield in Blood is cool but hopefully they adjust the internal cooldown on the charges. Otherwise it goes from awesome to just kinda neat.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 02:50

It's also reasonable to expect bone shield and vampiric blood will share a skill-cooldown.
I agree, I hope the icd changes, it's really too short.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Insolence » 09 Apr 2010, 03:27

Well Grav with it's one minute CD GoD might still work, gotta wait till Beta to say for sure though.

Otherwise I'm surprised that it wasn't something that interesting in the end, maybe cause I only look at the Tanking Face of it, but the new Abilities seem PvP-Oriented for the most part, unless Outbreak is supposed to be for better AoE Add Management as a Tank......(Lolwhut?)

Vengeance looks like soon we'll have "/2 LF 10K DPS Tank for HC Farming" soon. Not commenting on it any further since I haven't seen it in action.

They didn't really explain how the Runes are going to change, just that the costs will, and that we'll have a complicated Cooldown Method now. We already guessed they'd change them around since they said they don't want Tanks to rely on Runes as much or whatever they said. Lovely for DPS - more time to spam FS. And Tanks?

Least they remembered to move Bone Shield. Now I wonder if they'll do something nice like merge GoVB, GoUBA and GoBS together?

Overall I'm starting to feel like a Future-Wanna-Be-Warrior with V2 of Spell Reflection and stuff. What about Rune Strike in the future? Nothing. Presence Change? Maybe re-name because Blood Spec and Frost Presence feels weird. Fine idc either way. This didn't tell us much we didn't already know/guess and we still have loads of questions still left unanswered. Bah.
Last edited by Insolence on 09 Apr 2010, 03:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 03:31

Ah, yes, the clarification said one-minute CD. I missed that.

I agree it wasn't very much tanking detail.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Sazh » 09 Apr 2010, 04:23

I was exited to see Outbreak putting up diseases, but then the one minute cool-down cooled me down quite a bit. (Pun intended.) Hopefully with the new rune system we won't be left with nothing to do after DnD-IT-PS-Pest. Playing a Death Knight makes me miss the good old days of single resource.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby DJTimeKiller » 09 Apr 2010, 04:38

Ghostcrawler update

Ghostcrawler wrote:I'll take a stab at explaining the rune mechanic. Once you see it in action, it's pretty easy to understand.

Just focus on Blood Runes for the moment. The big change is that rune #2 will never start filling up until rune #1 is full. They always fill 1 then 2. Today 1 and 2 can both fill at the same time.

In Cataclysm, when you're killing things, you use rune 1. Then any extra "red" in rune 2 will fill rune 1 back up again. If both of them are full, you can use 2 Blood Runes immediately. But after that, rune 1 will fill up first and then rune 2. If it helps, imagine rune 2 is the extra tank.

This sounds like it will slow down DK attacks, and it will to a point. That's part of what we're trying to accomplish. We can then fill those extra GCDs with things like free abilities or runic power abilities or we have room to add talents that make runes fill faster. Remember, slow attacks can hit harder though. Instead of DKs hitting fast like a rogue, they'll hit slower and harder, like a warrior, which fits a lot of player's image of a DK anyway. Dual wield will hit faster of course.

I'll try another comparison. Imagine that all rogue abilities cost 100 energy. They have to wait until they get 100 energy, and then immediately use an attack so that they aren't wasting future energy. That's how DKs play now, except they have 6 runes to watch. Now imagine the same rogue except all his abilities cost 50 energy. If he hits an attack when he has 60 energy, then 50 is consumed but he has 10 energy still left and a head start on the next attack. That's the way we want DKs to play.

If that still doesn't make sense, then focus on what the experience will be, which is that you'll have more breathing room in your rotation and won't have to hit a button every single GCD. If you don't use a strike the second it's available, that's more okay because the extra tank will store extra rune resources rather than just wasting it. You'll still be hitting a lot of buttons though. We're keeping double rune strikes and Death Runes and disease multipliers and all of that. We'll have to make some changes in some abilities to accommodate the resource change, but it won't be unrecognizable to you.

We're not sure DKs even need Rune Strike any longer. If it survives, we'll turn it into an instant swing. But if we turn it into an instant swing, then it really isn't that different from existing strikes so it's possible we can just make a tanking rotation without it.


Ghostcrawler wrote:We're not sure DKs even need Rune Strike any longer
Last edited by Gravity on 09 Apr 2010, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: deleted first quote, as its in OP, anchored the second.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Insolence » 09 Apr 2010, 05:06

This sounds stupid. Hopefully its not as dumb as it looks to me so far, otherwise they need to totally review the entire Design from Step 1. cross that, from Step 0.

The ending comment was just "lolsaywhut?' to me, unless Vengeance or some other thing we don't know about is supposed to make up for all the Threat lost from no more Rune Strike, however if that's not the case and they don't have something similarly powerful if not as powerful to make up for the Threat-Loss-Bomb we'll take from that (Like a hopeful Frost Presence Threat Buff, maybe....), and adding it up to all the dumb stuff from recent posts to me it'll look like they're not taking DK Threat or DK Tanks very seriously in General, unless there's something we haven't quite caught into. Yet.

Don't flame me. I'm waiting till Beta to say that this Expansion will suck for us.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby DJTimeKiller » 09 Apr 2010, 05:13

I think what they're trying for in Cata is to have Tanks not have giant pools of threat where DPS can go all out, but also have it so that we're not struggling with threat either. We will definitely need to wait to see the Beta to see where things stand.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Gravity » 09 Apr 2010, 05:16

You have to assume they're not stupid.
If GC says RS is not likely to be needed, then you must assume you do not know something that he does or haven't read into it.

above wrote:Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will grant a stacking Attack Power buff... up to a maximum of 10% of the character's unbuffed health. For boss encounters, we expect that tanks will always have an Attack Power bonus equal to 10% of their health.


At the moment, I'm on 42K unbuffed. They've said Cataclysm will seriously increase our health.
Let's say I end up at 55K unbuffed at L85, I'll then get 5500 attack power from vengeance when I'm being hit.

That's huge, and it's the kind of mechanism that could make Rune Strike unnecessary.

This will be an awesome expansion for DK Tanks because Blizzard will not have to balance three trees, they can just get one right, and that is soooo much easier.
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Re: The Death Knight Cataclysm Review

Postby Insolence » 09 Apr 2010, 05:23

I thought they said Tank Gear Stamina was taking a dip for DPS Gear Stamina? Didn't read about buffs anywhere? Still got the Link by any chance? Sounds interesting!

5500 AP might seem huge now, but you'd have to look at it from a L85 PoV tbh. At L85 5500 AP might be "Blues Deeps" i.e. you can do 15K DPS with Blues from Heroics.

Otherwise yes, now 2 DPS Trees and one Tank Tree, would have been nice to leave the DPS side of Blood but eh, it would have been a lot of work to re-make it as to not rely on ArP so much. Least the overall balancing will end up being easier.

Btw, am I the only one thinking "Necrotic Strike - Deja Vu?" I think we know what it'll look like (lol) since some mobs in ICC have that ability.
Last edited by Insolence on 09 Apr 2010, 05:33, edited 1 time in total.
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