On stamina, avoidance and healing in Cataclysm

I’m really enjoying the anticipation of Cataclysm, the news snippets from Blizzard which fuel more speculation and conjecture about what’s in store for us. Being a tank in Cataclysm, and not dying in two hits from a boss, will be quite refreshing. I’ve talked about this quite a few times before.

One of the age old topics of avoidance vs stamina recently came up, and for once it wasn’t a redundant circular argument; because in Cataclysm dodge and parry

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Parry-haste confirmed to be mostly off in Icecrown Citadel

Posting here on parry-haste, the proc nerf and following me on Twitter.

The other day I posted about preliminary findings which show ICC has parry-haste mostly turned off for the raid bosses. Theck’s confirmed that now, and my gratitude to the original writers Tbdsamman (parry-haste addon) and Clifton (wrote the log parser).

Boss Can boss parry-haste? Marrowgar no Deathwhisper yes Deathbringer Saurfang no Festergut no Rotface no Putricide no Prince Valanar no Prince Taldaram no Blood-Queen Lana’thal no Sindragosa

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Parry-haste doesn't seem to exist in ICC

1. A clever nerd wrote an addon which checks if the boss you’re fighting has been parry-hasted.

2. Another clever geek wrote a script which parses logs to determine if parry-haste was seen.

3. Combined conclusion so far is that the only boss in Icecrown with parry-haste turned on is Deathwhisper, and possibly Saurfang.

Read the thread discussing it and download the addon from links within. If you’ve got matlab you can also get the code to

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Best gems for tanking, socket bonus considered

What gems do you use for tanking? This should be fairly well-known, but it might be an interesting discussion if we have any avoidance advocates out there who don’t like stamina.

Gem recommendations

If it’s a blue socket, 30 stamina, obviously.

If it’s red: then dodge/stam.

In what might have been an important theory development, Theck worked out agility’s benefits for Paladins. Thankfully Reader Kiku here has done the maths using Theck’s formula’s, and worked out how it applies to DKs:

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New tank gear in 3.3

List of new 3.3 BoP plate tank gear from 5-mans and emblem of frost rewards, by slot. You earn Frost emblems from raiding, or from the daily/weekly quests.

For gear from emblems of triumph (ie. the new emblem drop from bosses outside ICC), see this other complete post, which also includes BOE items from the AH or crafted.

Here’s a partial list that might be helpful.

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Rawr.TankDK: guest post from the lead developer

I’m really delighted to have this guest post! Enjoy. – Gravity

Rawr.TankDK

Hello, I’m Shazear the current contributing developer for the Tank DK module in Rawr. For those who don’t know, Rawr is a 3rd party tool to help evaluate gear for your PvE endgame WoW character. It does not have a direct in-game corresponding addon, but rather can import characters from the Character Profiler addon or via WoW Armory. Each module does its own evaluation of your character appropriate by class/role, so most gear-evaluation bugs are unique for the module, e.g.: between DPS and Tank DK.

What TankDK Does Poorly

Blood. This tree tanks differently than any of the more classic models of Survival and Mitigation. The talents don’t model very well in the current structure of evaluating only what the Tank itself can bring and possibly what additional buffs may be provided by the raid. There are key +health temp buffs as well as +incoming healing bonuses, be it through damage done or through healing buffs to take the raw healing burden off your healers.

My initial implementation of key blood talents: Vampiric Blood and Mark of Blood caused problems with the model, either through completely tearing apart the results in the case of VB, or causing a weird loop/hang with Mark of Blood. After getting some Rawr3 implementation taken care of, getting the Blood talents integrated more reliably is next up on my list of work to do.

The other challenge is dealing with the variety of bosses. Each boss mechanic in the current raid scene are different enough that tanks are swapping out some pieces of gear to better tackle whichever boss they may be looking at any time. Some raid teams swap out different types of tanks for some fights, and just look at that as being the normal way of dealing with leading content. In the coming versions of Rawr, we’re working to implement the ability for any character to tune their gear for a specific boss encounter. This is not just for tanks, but it will be generic so all classes can have good expectations for the bosses they have to deal with. I see this really helping the tanking modules so that we are no longer just trying to guestimate the type of boss in very vague terms.

Accuracy and Comparisons

Within Rawr, there are many stats and evaluations. Something most users need to remember is that it doesn’t just model the static values of what’s equipped like Pawn or most of the other evaluators out there. Most of the stats include the procs of the trinkets and such, and are relayed in the context of the boss level for the current raid content. So for example Dodge/Parry values will be lower than you see in the Armory or in-game because the level difference decreases your effective avoidance.

I don’t use other addons or simulators to compare to the results of Rawr. I rather would work to ensure the accuracy of the model. Because Rawr has the full power of a compiled application, I can, given enough time, make the model exceptionally accurate. Right now, however, I still feel like I’m just getting the model to stand on its own. A key point that contrasts Rawr with other addons/simulation tools out there is the active modeling of procs and buffs. Most addons simply can’t do the work to make those evaluations very accurately. Even the accuracy within Rawr can vary depending on the situation. As we integrate better boss-modeling we should see some of the tanking procs and such come into their own even more.

What TankDK Does Well

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Theckhd, maths guru, delivers Icecrown answers

My gratitude to Honors for tweeting this. Theckhd is a serious maths guru. He worked out the avoidance value of expertise. He has now looked at the -20% dodge aura and I’m basically going to adopt his findings as Fact, because (a) I can’t fault it, and (b) if it’s wrong, he’s humble enough to correct himself (he did this in the expertise analysis) pretty rapidly.

Theckhd’s post is on maintankadin (scroll down to near the bottom of the thread). I’ll copy here most of his key statements.

I won’t go on about what I said the other day and where I was right or wrong. Who cares. Here’s the current state. I have mixed in below Theckhd’s points with mine; he’s indented in colour. » continue reading

Icecrown pwns you for 20%, and healing in Cataclysm

Icecrown is going to nerf your dodge by 20%, with an aura similar to Sunwell.

Daelos' post on it:»

For tank gemming, you are basically just dealing with your discretionary gem slot and enchants, maybe you can choose one ring or trinket over another too. Probably you can vary your character by +/- 5% avoidance and +/- 337 stamina (those two ranges have similar item budgets).

So, just stack stamina. Don’t gem for avoidance. At such low levels of avoidance, the relative gain from avoidance isn’t great (at high levels it gets excellent, even with diminishing returns).

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Why are we doing this?

The high levels of tank avoidance players have obtained is making the incoming damage a tank DOES take more ’spiky’ than is healthy for raiding. Ideally, tanks would be receiving a relatively constant stream of damage over time. This allows healers to better plan their healing strategy, broaden their spell options, and simply give more time to react. Tanks could use their cooldowns more reactively. Instead, the current situation is that if we make a hard hitting melee boss and a tank doesn’t avoid two successive swings then the tank could very well be dead in that 1-2 second window. The use of reactive defensive abilities instead becomes a methodically planned affair, healers have to spam their largest heals just in case the huge damage spike happens.

We’ve been trying to do a fair amount to mitigate the effect of high tank avoidance on the encounter side of things during this expansion with faster melee swings, additional melee strikes, dual wielding, narrowing the normal variance of melee swing damage, and various other tricks. There’s a limit to what we can do, however. So to give us a bit of breathing room we?ve implemented Chill of the Throne. Going forward past Icecrown Citadel, we have plans to keep tank avoidance from growing so high again. Source.

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List of raid gear without raiding

Plate tank gear you can get from emblems, BoEs from the AH or professions. Useful to plan gearing up a new or alt tank without having to actually raid. Helps you decide which items to buy with gold or emblems.

Exclusions: the gear which requires tokens you can only get in a raid, such as from TotC-25 for tier 9.5, and excludes most Emblem of Heroism items (i200) since they’re out-dated.

For 3.3 BOP items, I have another list.

Where do I get emblems?

With patch 3.3, all Emblem of Triumph (EoT) gear will be attainable from 5-man heroics. In live 3.22, you get Emblem of Conquest (EoC) in 5-mans and EoT from the Coliseum raid. The legacy badge Emblem of Valour no longer drops anywhere, and is only available by trading-down from another emblem.

What’s an emblem worth?

There is an opportunity cost to Emblems, since they can all be traded-in for a valuable item you could auction:

Obviously, runed orbs are not a good return per emblem, you’re better to trading-down and sell a BOE i213 wrist guard.

Crusader Orbs value will change as 3.3 gets closer, and then very distinctly once its live. I don’t know where their price will end up. But because EoT will be freely available in 5-mans, you would expect the supply to far outstrip demand and we’d find a lower value on crusader orbs and therefore a lower opportunity cost on buying gear with those emblems.

Do I use emblems or gold to buy gear?

In patch 3.22, on strictly this basis, Wapach’s i200 for 2000g is not great value compared to Thassarian’s Pauldrons i232 for 30 EoT (=2790g equivalent).

However, you need to factor in (a) the value of your time to get 30 EoT plus (b) what alternative tank items those 30 EoT could buy you. You may be better buying Wapach for 2Kg, then saving the 30 EoT towards leggings since you can’t buy any legs with gold.

Gear list

Head

Neck

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Avoidance value of expertise

In late August, Theckhd of Maintankadin started an epic post to work out, if expertise was an avoidance stat, how good would it be? The exact ratios below apply to paladins, but the principles can be applied to warriors and DKs too. I’m not sure it works for druids because they’re so dodge-oriented in the first place.

Update Feb 9th 2010: most bosses in Icecrown do not parry-haste, so expertise is just a threat-stat in that perspective. Read more.

Update

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TankTotals addon updated

One of my must-have addons, being a stats geek, is TankTotals.

It just got updated to v3.310 and is now compatible with patch 3.22.

If you’re not already using TankTotals, let me point out that in a prior patch the author Reynard added a few nice features.

I particularly like his time-to-live calculation which even factor in expertise/parry-haste, which will be interesting for everyone including dual-wield tanks.

Druids will enjoy seeing a figure for savage defence uptime, too.

I

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Shield-tanks vs DKs in heroics

Jan 6th: ha ! I knew I was right. See this Blue post.

Original post follows.

I’d like to do some analysis on how a shield-tank feels less squishy in heriocs, because shield block reduces the average incoming hit by such a high proportion. Against a raid boss, the shield block diminishes in value (well argued and established on tankspot).

But in a Heroic, I know shield-tanks can feel less squishy than DKs; I believe it’s shield block. I’d like to work out exactly how much it helps though.

The problem was, looking at the data didn’t really support my hypothesis… details on that at the end.

How much is blocked?

  • An epic, well-geared paladin or warrior is blocking 1500 to 2000.
  • Comments to this post have further data points (thanks guys and gals)
  • A friend of mine (i213 warrior) is blocking for about 1200.

Some WWS data points below. Note I did not check to see if any priest or shaman damage-reduction buffs were up because what I was looking for really was some ranges of trash and boss damage, and some confirmations on block values. Those buffs could influence data.

Just for simplicity, I didn’t pull out data on druid tanks, even though they have a bear block.

Here’s a WWS of a Utgarde Keep speed run with a maintankadin, with a geared team. Here’s a screenshot of that for the WWS expires.

  • On trash, the maximum physical hit taken was 5771.
  • Average hit 1252 (that includes those he partially blocked)
  • His average block was for 1923.
  • 49.8% avoidance + mitigation, 6.4% of that was block
  • On bosses, maximum hit was 10797.
  • Average hit 2122, max 10797
  • Average block 1902 (about the same as trash, as it should be: it’s a linear stat).
See more WWS data points»

So what damage do tanks in heroics take? » continue reading

Here’s WWS of UK again with an ordinary DK tank. Screenshot.

  • On trash, maximum hit was 6626
  • Average hit 2005
  • Avoidance 53.5%
  • On bosses, maximum hit 7053, average 2548

Another WWS of UK with DK tank. Screenshot.

  • Trash: average 1829
  • max 5236, avoidance 55.2%
  • Bosses: max 9213, average 2259

Warrior tank WWS screenshot.

  • Trash: average 1702, maximum 4414, block value 1985
  • 59.9% avoidance and mitigation, 9.1% of that is block
  • Boss: average 1806, max 6027, block value 2857 (must have used talents/trinkets)
  • 54.8% avoidance and mitigation, 6.8% of that as block

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Cataclysm tanking and healing will be more strategic

Two comments from Ghostcrawler recently are clearly pointing at a design change which means we’ll have a more strategic playstyle for Cataclysm tanks and healers.

In Cataclysm:

  • relative to the damage input from bosses, tanks will have more stamina,
  • total avoidance will be lower by some degree, perhaps 30% rather than 50%.

The significance of this is exciting! It means healers will have time to choose slower heals. Your tank won’t die if you go for greater heal because you will have the time. Whether boss fights also become longer in duration is unclear, but that would be a nice change for the better; to feel more epic and to be consistent with a strategic gameplay. » continue reading

TankPoints and TankTotals

In case you haven’t checked, the new TankPoints is out a few days ago. It works correctly with 3.2 mechanics, but you have to edit the TOC file (to 30200) since he forgot to do that. It’s safe to edit the TOC file, and will make it load without having to enable ‘out of date addons’ in-game.

TankPoints is correctly calculating avoidance, but I do not think it fixed the Frigid Dreadplate bug I found (so DKs should add

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Hiya Whitetooth, TankPoints on 3.2?

Aug 18: TankPoints r108 released (it includes the new 3.2 RatingBuster maths so it will calculate avoidance correctly), but not pushed with correct TOC yet. Just edit the TOC yourself, this is safe. I tested it, works with 3.2.

Update Aug 17: Whitetooth’s released an updated RatingBuster which means TankPoints is getting closer. They share a statistics library.

Update Aug 10: I got a PM from Whitetooth, he is working on the new version. Says it’ll be ready ’soon’.

Original post:

I’ve emailed Whitetooth twice now, author of Tankpoints. We’re corresponded in the past because I wrote the user guide. He hasn’t replied yet, and nor have the tickets on wowace been accepted (I found a bug that Frigid Dreadplate is not being added in the to-miss calculation).

In 3.2, the avoidance mechanics change and so he has to update Tankpoints or we can’t use it anymore. I haven’t seen a beta version to test on the PTR.

In contrast, TankTotals has been updated a few times recently and looks like the author is ready for 3.2. So what are the differences?

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Dodge 3.2

If fellow tanks haven’t seen this TankSpot article on the 3.2 avoidance changes yet, it includes the new ratio for optimal avoidance and is worth a look. Has some impressive maths in it too .

I tried to summarise in a thread at tankspot and have retyped it below.

For patch 3.3, see this discussion on the -20% aura. The below remains accurate even in 3.3.

What to do in 3.2

The tldr version is this:

Diminishing returns (avoidance) spreadsheet

Update Aug 12: this calculator is now wrong since in patch 3.2 the rating:percentage ratio changed.

I developed this here for out-of-game convenient analysis, using google spreadsheets. If it gets mucked up, just revert version to that of June 6th.

You can enter your dodge, defence, agility, parry, strength to see what your final statistics are after diminished returns.

Has no block rating calculation, sorry my shield-wielding brethren. I simply didn’t put it in.

Lightweight macro for avoidance

In January, when Whitetooth worked out (laboriously) what the miss cap is (related to diminishing returns, it’s 16%), I came across this handy set of macros coded by the other maths legend Satrina.

Determining the miss cap was big news for tanking theorycrafters. I posted on it at dk.info

The macro below result are -vs- L80 target (not L83).

For DKs, the macro you want is below. /run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format(“Total avoidance: %.2f%%”, GetDodgeChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 +

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